At a time when many business owners are doing more with less, how do you address employee burnout? Today on the Atlanta Small Business Show, we’re pleased to welcome Scott Mautz, keynote speaker, trainer, best-selling author, and the Founder of Profound Performance. Scott discusses employee burnout in his book, Leading from the Middle, and he joins us today to share his perspective on how business leaders can address it.
Transcription:
Jim Fitzpatrick:
Thanks so much, Scott, for joining us once again on the show.
Scott Mautz:
Yeah. Happy to be here once again, Jim. Thank you so much.
Jim Fitzpatrick:
Sure. So let’s kind of jump right in here. So many people, we get such great emails and text messages whenever you’re on. And obviously they’re like, “Have that guy back on again.” And I think this is a perfect topic to talk about because so many companies that said in the opening are dealing with this both on the employee side, as well as the owners, right? And business owners that are out there. So how serious an issue is employee burnout?
Scott Mautz:
Well, Jim, this probably went under the radar of a lot of people and I’m shocked, but believe it or not, I think we intuitively all know that everybody gets burned out from time to time. Right? That’s the known factor. What I think people don’t know is that in 2019, the World Health Organization actually deemed and labeled burnout, an official medical condition and workplace hazard.
Jim Fitzpatrick:
Really? Wow.
Scott Mautz:
So, you can now go Google, your listeners can go Google, “World Health Organization burnout,” and they’ll see it listed in their manual of official medical conditions now. Something caused obviously by stress and a lot of other factors that have to do with it all.
Jim Fitzpatrick:
That’s a real issue.
Scott Mautz:
It’s a real issue now. Yeah. Officially speaking.
Jim Fitzpatrick:
That’s right. And it affects so much. It affects performance. It affects the company’s bottom line. It affects working well with your coworkers and in a team environment. It affects the culture of a company. As we just said, it’s a real issue out there. And I think it’s sometimes overlooked by many managers out there, although some managers may be burned out. But it’s certainly I think taken too lightly, right?
Scott Mautz:
Yeah. That’s right. There may be no greater productivity loss in a workplace than employees that are suffering for burnout. And Jim, I could throw out all kinds of statistics at you to make the point. And I was thinking about doing that today. And then I just thought, Jim, I feel like you and your viewer, they know that intuitively already.
Jim Fitzpatrick:
Yeah.
Scott Mautz:
The holistic impact it has when employees are not showing up like themselves at work.
Jim Fitzpatrick:
Sure.
Scott Mautz:
And the real tragedy is not just Jim, that this exists and productivity spirals down and that it feeds on each other. It’s that we’re not as good at spotting it. And I think I can help because there’s some pretty clear signs. The World Health Organization has even spelled out since it’s an official medical condition, you should be able to diagnose this medical condition. So here’s what to look for. For those of you paying attention at home.
Jim Fitzpatrick:
Yeah. Yeah. What do you look for?
Scott Mautz:
Yeah. If this is you, by the way, Jim we’ll need to talk afterwards. After I describe through these symptoms. If you see employees that consistently feel tired, they have low energy, they’re disengaged or apathetic towards their work. If they’re cynical or the amount of complaining that they’re doing is increasing even more than they normally are doing. If you see the obvious sign productivity is dropping and the quality of work is dropping. If you see they’re becoming more, self-isolated and distancing themselves from social aspects of their job, that’s a key.
Scott Mautz:
Two more. If you see more irritability, over sensitivity, taking offense at the slightest comments or not being able to take feedback productively or at all. And if they just start to show up less at work physically. They’re absent or they’re tardy more often. So look for these signs to help understand. And if you start to see a trend, you may have a problem here with an employee feeling real burnout. Or maybe even yourself, if those symptoms apply to you.
Jim Fitzpatrick:
Yeah. Oh, for sure. No question. And it’s unfortunate because it’s one of those things that managers may notice in their employees and say, “Oh, we got to replace that person. Let’s just replace them. Their head’s not in the game. They’re making mistakes.” To your point, they might not be coming in on a regular basis. They’re taking more time off. And those are also all the signs of an employee that might need to be replaced.
Jim Fitzpatrick:
But I think too many times that mistake is made where an employer replaces an employee that falls under that category instead of working with them and identifying the real issue. Because you might replace an employee and find yourself in the exact same boat, six months later, or three months later, because the job is overwhelming or there’s a lack of communication. Or so many other different reasons out there. So A, how do you address it with the employee? And how do you fix this issue or this problem?
Scott Mautz:
Yeah. Yeah. What I normally tell folks is through years of research, I’ve been able to comb it down to four questions. If you’re working with someone that you suspect is suffering from burnout.
Jim Fitzpatrick:
Okay.
Scott Mautz:
Or even Jim, if you hear those symptoms, you’re like, “That could be me.”
Jim Fitzpatrick:
Right.
Scott Mautz:
There’s four questions that you ask to address this. The first, so imagine you and I are sitting down Jimmy, I’m having a discussion with you. My first question would be, “All right. So I think Jim is experiencing burnout.” My first question is, “Okay, is it too much work?”
Jim Fitzpatrick:
Yeah.
Scott Mautz:
“Is what he is working on, is he not prioritizing? Is there too much, non-essential work drifting into his work plan? Is there training that could help the employee to be more efficient in what they’re doing?”
Scott Mautz:
So most people, honestly, Jim, they start here. If they see an employee burned out, they assume, “Okay, maybe it’s too much work.” That’s a good place to start. Because quite often about a third of the time, that’s a major, major, major contributor to the burnout. So start there. Question one? Is it too much work? Make sense so far? Yeah.
Jim Fitzpatrick:
Right. Yeah.
Scott Mautz:
Second question. A lot of people miss this one, Jim. Is it the wrong work that the person is doing?
Jim Fitzpatrick:
Okay.
Scott Mautz:
This is where you get into discussions around role fit and “Hey, are you really the right fit for this job?” Does it turn out that when we look at matching up your skills with what this job requires it’s not a good fit? Does it turn out, matching up what you want to do in life with this job is not a good fit? This is where you talk about clarity. Are you really not clear on what’s expected of you in this role? Are you really not clear on the scope of your role?
Scott Mautz:
And what I find Jim is a lot of times people will not only not deliver enough within the context of their scope of their work, but they’ll try to deliver too much. And you’ll find out like, whoa, whoa, whoa, no wonder your burned out. You’re getting into areas that really aren’t even your core job responsibility. And I appreciate you showing initiative and going above and beyond. Here’s some areas where you don’t need to take this on. It’s outside of your scope. So are they working on the wrong work? That’s question number two.
Scott Mautz:
Third question. Are you getting the wrong response to your work? This creates a ton of burnout. So for example, if you’re talking with the employee and you find out that in truth, they feel underappreciated. The response that they get is never appreciative enough. That’s going to burn you out. If they’re running into unreasonable restraints or barriers or toxicity in their work, they’re not getting the right response to their efforts. For me personally, that’s the number one thing right there, Jim. I worry most about this for myself. I need to get the right response back. I need to get people not getting in my way to the work that I get done. I need to not work in a toxic environment.
Jim Fitzpatrick:
Sure. Right.
Scott Mautz:
And if it turns out all those are true, I guarantee you I’m going to get burned out in a hurry.
Jim Fitzpatrick:
That’s right.
Scott Mautz:
So you really have to make sure they’re getting, discuss that. What kind of response are you getting to your work?
Jim Fitzpatrick:
Sure.
Scott Mautz:
And then finally, do you have unrealistic expectations of your work?
Jim Fitzpatrick:
Yeah.
Scott Mautz:
And we hear a lot Jim about so many businesses are understaffed.
Jim Fitzpatrick:
That’s right.
Scott Mautz:
People are just resigning and moving on, but there’s still a core truth that many of us lose sight of the boundaries of what’s expected of us. Perfectionism can kick in. A fear of rejection and criticism can kick in. And we just overestimate the impact of imperfection. And so we work consistently well beyond our expectations and we’re not realistic about what’s really required us or what we require of ourselves. And so we burn ourselves out. And I find often when I ask this question, I uncover, “Oh my gosh, this person is actually a closet perfectionist, and I need to work on them with that.” So these four questions will really get you to the core of what’s causing burnout.
Jim Fitzpatrick:
Yeah. Fantastic. And in so many cases, just being able to ask these questions to your associate, to your employee relieves, I think a lot of stress and anxiety just in sitting down with them. To say, “Hey, let’s kind of go through this and see if you fit into this category. And let’s talk about what the remedies might be.” Rather than avoiding it altogether, which a lot of managers do. And to my point earlier, you just find maybe a replacement, somebody that comes in, that looks at it with a new set of eyes. And says, “Okay, I’m ready to go.” Only to find out that person later on is burned out as well. Because you never addressed those core issues that you talked about.
Scott Mautz:
Yeah. Jim, I want to jump in on that and say, you’re really good at what you do. You should consider doing more of this because you really hit an important point, which is in addition to asking those four questions, if you are the manager of an employee you suspect is burned out. We find in our research, one of the most powerful things you can do is simply as you said, have the conversation.
Scott Mautz:
Because it, as it turns out, a lot of times the employees, they just want to feel heard. They want to be known. They want to know that you know that they’re working really hard. And a lot of times when I sit down and have these discussions, and maybe you’ve experienced the same thing, you don’t actually end up making that many adjustments to the employee’s work plan.
Jim Fitzpatrick:
Yeah.
Scott Mautz:
It’s just an attitude adjustment. And they now know you know dear boss, how hard I’m working.
Jim Fitzpatrick:
That’s right.
Scott Mautz:
Half the time that’s the solution.
Jim Fitzpatrick:
And they now know that you care, you care enough to sit them down and ask these questions. And that in and of itself will prop that person up and get their head back in the game often time. The other thing about this is that when you hear about burnout you’ll get a manager, an owner of a company, what have you that says, “Oh, we’ll take a few days off.” Okay, well that’s all well, and good. I’m going to take a few days off, but I’m going to come back to the exact same situation. So even though I’m coming back refreshed from my vacation, doesn’t mean that the items that you talked about changed at my work. And unless you identify that as you pointed out and address it, you can take all the vacations you want. That’s not the cure, right?
Scott Mautz:
That’s exactly right. And it’s so simple. It’s something that we all can do as managers. And even for ourselves the concept of self-care for ourselves.
Jim Fitzpatrick:
That’s right.
Scott Mautz:
But it’s so easy to just, it starts with intention knowing that it’s a real thing, burnout. Knowing how to spot it. And then caring enough to, even if you don’t use the four questions that I shared today that we found to be incredibly powerful. Even if you don’t use any of them and you totally screw it up, but you at least still show the effort.
Jim Fitzpatrick:
That’s right.
Scott Mautz:
You’re going to be more than half of the way there, Jim.
Jim Fitzpatrick:
That’s right.
Scott Mautz:
And it’s something any of your viewers can do when they engage with someone they suspect is suffering from burnout.
Jim Fitzpatrick:
Yeah. As I sit here listening to you go over these points, I’m thinking about my kids or my kids that are in college. And I think about my relationship with my wife and think about maybe there’s burnout happening there indirectly. And there needs to be a conversation to say, “Hey, let’s talk about this.” And this can cross over from your profession into your personal lives, right?
Scott Mautz:
These same four questions, we have used them for exactly that, Jim. I can’t tell you how productive it is to ask your spouse, your partner, your life partner, “Hey, are you getting the wrong response to the way that I’m reacting to what you’re doing around the house?”
Jim Fitzpatrick:
Sure, sure.
Scott Mautz:
So, these same set of questions, they have a lot of the same underlying principles, which are people want to be known.
Jim Fitzpatrick:
They do.
Scott Mautz:
They want to be heard.
Jim Fitzpatrick:
That’s right.
Scott Mautz:
They want make sure the scope of what they’re taking on in the relationship, the workload is equal and fair, and that they’re not getting burned out and being shared. And that they’re working within the expectations that they should. So a lot of this really applies to the personal life as well.
Jim Fitzpatrick:
That’s right. That’s right. Scott Mautz, keynote speaker, trainer, bestselling author, and founder of Profound Performance. Thank you so much for joining us on the show. We get so much out of your visits here. I know that our viewers do as well. So thank you so much for joining us. Hopefully we can visit with you again and cover some other points that are in your book.
Scott Mautz:
Thanks so much. I really appreciate it, Jim. And thanks as always for having me as a guest.
Jim Fitzpatrick:
Absolutely. Thank you.
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