Are you struggling with price-based objections from your customers? Today on the Atlanta Small Business Show, we learn more about how to lower consumer resistance from an expert in the field. We’re pleased to welcome Josh Braun, the Founder of Josh Braun Sales Training and the host of the ‘Inside Selling’ podcast, who shares what causes objections to happen in the first place and what small business owners can do about it.
Transcription:
Jim Fitzpatrick:
So Josh, thank you so much for joining us on the show today.
Josh Braun:
Thanks for having me. I think that’s a good place to start, is the cause. And I’ll tell a few stories as to why that happens. I don’t know if you’ve ever experienced this, you’re in a mall and you’ve got someplace to go. And one of those aggressive mall, kiosk people…
Jim Fitzpatrick:
I love those people.
Josh Braun:
Look you in the eye and they say, “Can I ask you a question?” If you’re like most people, how do you respond to that?
Jim Fitzpatrick:
Right. It’s a great question. And it’s a great way to open up something. And I usually, I know where they’re coming from. So I’ll say not right now. I don’t have a lot of time. I’m late for something and I keep walking. Cause I know where they’re going.
Josh Braun:
That’s exactly it. Because you know that if you say yes, you’re going to be asked the question and eventually you’re going to get some sea scrub rubbed down your hands and you’re going to get sold some sea scrub that you don’t want. Prospects feel that way all the time around salespeople, because they know salespeople have a vested interest.
Jim Fitzpatrick:
That’s right.
Josh Braun:
They know that salespeople have a goal to be able to get them to say yes so they could sell all their sea scrub. And so prospects are very skeptical of salespeople for that reason. So the traditional way in which salespeople are taught to overcome objections is to overcome them, is to somehow talk someone into something. The problem is that when you try to talk someone into something, it actually has the opposite effect. People want away from that, because whenever people feel the push or the persuasion, creates a threat and threat triggers a fight or flight response. And so the traditional way of overcoming objections and trying to change someone’s mind just doesn’t work.
Jim Fitzpatrick:
That’s right.
Josh Braun:
I mean, you see this with a teenager. Tell a teenager all the reasons why they should stop smoking and they will actually smoke more.
Jim Fitzpatrick:
That’s right.
Josh Braun:
It’s actually something called the backfire effect. And yet that’s how sales professionals are trained. Got to overcome this thing. But it just doesn’t work.
Jim Fitzpatrick:
That’s right. That’s right. So what do you say to those salespeople are dealing with objections now that we know where they’re coming from? What say you on that topic?
Josh Braun:
So it’s a shift and the shift is from overcoming to understanding. And I’ll just walk you through a couple of examples of what that sounds like and the psychology behind it. It turns out that when you make people feel heard and understood first, they’re more open to what you have to say. When you detach from trying to get the sale and let go of assumptions and just try to get to the truth behind what the prospect is saying. You open the door, because sometimes objections aren’t objections at all. They’re actually true. I’ll give you an example of one of those. So you call a prospect and your prospect says, “I can’t talk right now. I’m on my way to the hospital”. If you’re trained in objection handling what you do is you say something like this. “Well, can I have 37 seconds to tell you why I called?” And because that’s actually the truth, the person is going to the hospital. You’re going to piss them off.
Jim Fitzpatrick:
That’s right.
Josh Braun:
Because not all objections are a brush off, sometimes they’re true. So the superpower that we’re going to walk through today is how do we get to the truth rather than thinking of objections as things to understand. So I’ll give you an example of one, your price is too high. The traditional approach is, well, a lot of people felt that way, but what they found was this and then they bought it. What do you say, right? This idea of feel, felt, found. Let me overcome the objection when you understand, it sounds like this, prospect says your price is too high, you’re going to just pause for a second, and you’re going to say this, “Sounds like you’re comparing this to something else”. Then you’re just going to pause. “Sounds like price is your only concern” and what you typically hear when you say that, is all the other reasons that have nothing to do with price. “Well, we want a black one, not a red one”. “We don’t have this in our budget at all”. “We have zero money. It’s not a priority right now”.
Jim Fitzpatrick:
Right.
Josh Braun:
But when you assume that it’s your job to overcome the objection. You go into this mode where you feel like you want to talk someone into something. This assumption is a big problem with salespeople. I’ll tell you a quick car story, because this just happened last week. My wife called up a card dealer ownership because she saw a car that she wanted and she says, “Does the car have a sunroof?” Because she couldn’t really tell from the description on the website and the car salesperson went into persuasion mode. “Not only does it have a sunroof, but it’s tinted and it’s got one track retractable with one push and it’s got memory, it’s got this”. My wife said, “Gee, that’s too bad. I’m not looking for a sunroof. I find them annoying and loud” versus another car salesperson. Who’s not attached to the outcome. Someone says, Does a car have a sunroof? He or she might say this, “Sounds like you have a reason for asking that”, “Well actually I hate sunroofs” and that’s a very different conversation. So this shift from overcoming to understanding and letting go of assumptions helps conversations open up rather than you trying to persuade people.
Jim Fitzpatrick:
That’s right. And also just as important are some of those pauses that you put in there, because you get both parties kind of thinking, especially the consumer in this part to kind of think about what they just said and then to be open to your comeback, because so many times salespeople, as you know will come back very quickly. And it’s almost like this defensive or this offense that they’re playing, which doesn’t work either with today’s consumer. They want something that’s… Talk to me intelligently about this. Don’t try to necessarily to your point, overcome that quick objection to get on with the sale.
Josh Braun:
You make a great point. Look, these aren’t just sales skills. These are people skills. I mean look. So I had a conversation with my wife the other day and we were talking about, I said, “Let’s get some sushi” and she goes, “We always get sushi”. Now the traditional approach would be to try to talk her and why we should get sushi. Right? So, to your point, I’m going to pause and I’m simply going to say this, “Sounds like we’ve been ordering sushi way too much. Seems like you’re in the mood for something else”. And the tonality of your voice. Notice I’m using a downward inflection and I’m not sounding hypey, the tonality of your voice. I always say sound more like a TED Talk rather than a CrossFit instructor. Because when you have unbridled enthusiasm and you talk like this, to your point, and you pounce on people, you create the pressure. Our job as a salesperson is we got to reduce their fear of you. And we do that through our voice and the words that we choose. We kind of lean back. We pause. We have a detached mindset kind of indifferent to the outcome.
Jim Fitzpatrick:
And it’s so important because people will come into selling scenarios with their guard so high and their emotions so high. And they’re sensitive. They’re very sensitive to anything that even sounds like a sale because for the most part, they’re meeting a salesperson. So they’ve already got this anticipation that all you want is their wallet and you just want to get them out the door and you want to sell them something that they might not even use or care about. But as long as you made the sale, then you are going to be happy. And that’s the point of view that most consumers have. So to try to take the air out of that balloon, so to speak and bring down the overall anxiety that a consumer has is probably paramount first and foremost, before you can even get into a product feature presentation.
Josh Braun:
Yeah, I think it’s because everyone’s had a bad experience with salespeople. We’ve all been duped. Right? Look, my first experience being duped was when I was six years old, I loved comic books. And in these comic books were these ads for this thing called sea monkeys. I don’t know if you remember these things, but these things looked like some creature from outer space and the ads made them look like these big seven foot tall monsters that you could train and have them do tricks. And they lived forever.
But when you get these sea monkeys, they’re actually Brine shrimp. They don’t look anything like the picture and they die in an hour. And so it was my first experience of like, wow, a salesperson in this case, this marketing message has duped me and everyone’s had that experience. So we are a high alert whenever we feel sales people trying to talk us into something. I can’t tell you I’m the best of course I’m saying I’m the best. I’m a salesperson. I have a vested interest. So we have to shift the mindset of letting go of assumptions and seeing if there even is an opportunity rather than assuming there’s an opportunity. The other week I had someone listening to a cold call and the prospect said “I don’t work there anymore. I’m retired”. And the salesperson, because they were attached to getting a meeting started to say, “Well, who do you know, who can you introduce me to? Who took over for you?.”
If you were detached from the outcome, meaning you weren’t so worried about the sale, but you were just in the moment, you might say something like this. “What are you doing now with all that time?”. I had another person, cold call prospect that was on a boat. It was two o’clock on a Wednesday. And he’s detached from the outcome. Prospect said, “I can’t talk right now. I’m on a boat”. And the salesperson, because he’s detached said this, “How do you get to be on a boat? Two o’clock on a Wednesday. I want to be on a boat”. And the prospect says, “Because I’m old” and the salesperson says, “Well, I’m old”. And the prospect said, “How old are you?” and he goes “32” he goes, “you got to be a lot older than that”. And it just opened up conversation. Prospect says, “I’m on my way to the hospital”. If you’re detached, you say, “Oh my God is everything okay?”.
Jim Fitzpatrick:
That’s right.
Josh Braun:
If you’re attached, you say, “Can I have 37 seconds to tell you why I called”.
Jim Fitzpatrick:
That’s right. That’s right. It’s so important. And this kind of selling this type of selling is going to be way more popular and accepted, especially after all we’ve been through in the last two years in this country, right with COVID. I mean, there’s a lot of people where their heightened senses out there, where they’re just so sensitive to anybody that wants to push them into a product or a service right now they’d rather have more of a consultive type sales approach than one that says, “Here’s the best price. Here’s what we can do. When can you take it home with you? When can you do that?” That seems to be more of a pushback because of the fact we’ve gone through this lockdown and this COVID situation that hopefully is for the most part in our rear view mirror. Although I guess it’s still out there. But people still want that same sales approach that we took in the last couple of years. That was much I guess you could say a kinder, gentler sales approach right than in the past.
Josh Braun:
Well, I think it starts with… so you have to know something that your prospect doesn’t know, that can help them move away from something they don’t want. I’ll give you an example. Several years ago, I was in the mall with my wife and I did not need anything. I was there just killing some time with her. We were going to grab some dinner after I walked into a fit to run store, not needing anything. If the sales associates said to me, “what brings you in today?” I would’ve said, “I’m good. I’m just looking” if she said, “can I help you?” I would’ve said no, but she didn’t do any of those things. She looked down at my sneakers and she goes, “oh, are you a runner?” I go, “yes”. She goes, “what distance?” And I said, “I’m training for a marathon”. And she said this, “have you ever had a running gate test?”.
And I said, “what the heck is that?” And moments later, I’m literally on a treadmill in the fit to run store. She freezes the video frame. She zooms into my ankles and she goes, “notice how your ankles are over pronating when you run”. And I said, “well, so what” she goes, “well, the problem is, if you’re running in sneakers that are not made for pronated feet, you can get injured on long distance runs. You can get runners shin splits. If you’d like, I could take a look at your sneakers to see if they’re made for pronated feet”. And they weren’t. And about six minutes later, I’m spending $170 on new sneakers and insoles. The takeaway here is, you have to be a problem finder. Not a problem asker.
Jim Fitzpatrick:
That’s right.
Josh Braun:
You have to be able to know something that your prospect doesn’t know that can help them move away from something they don’t want or towards something they do want.
Jim Fitzpatrick:
That’s right. So true. And you can make the deal. Or I can say you should be able to make the deal in those first few moments rather than lose the deal in those first few moments. Because that’s when they’re sizing you up as to the person they’re going to trust and do business with.
Josh Braun:
It’s about creating an opening. Like I know that you advertise to small businesses and I know that you are looking for people to advertise to those small businesses. So if I knew something that you didn’t know to help you attract more of those people, you would probably not hang the phone up on me. You’d probably be a little curious, especially with the right tonality. right? But I have to have that big idea. I can’t come in there and say, “I’m going to help you get advertisers” because you’re going to think, “well, I’m already getting advertisers”. I have to have a sneaker idea. I have to know something about your business that you don’t know to help you move away from something you don’t want or towards something you do want. I have to have a point of view.
Jim Fitzpatrick:
That’s right.
Josh Braun:
So important.
Jim Fitzpatrick:
Josh, right now we see the shortage of goods out there. I mean, whether it be cars or boats or RVs, I mean, you name it. Almost everything is in a shortage, especially on the big ticket side. What’s your recommendation to businesses out there and sales people out there right now where, as one salesperson said to me recently, “It’s like shooting fish in a barrel. I only have so many. I know I’m going to sell them out. I’m not discounting any of these products”. And that’s the way it is. And I believe that bad habits can be created during good times. And those are the good times that we’re in right now because there’s a shortage of products and everything is flying off the shelves. And what we’re talking about today, by building that dialogue and that repo with today’s customer while it’s important, it’s not as important in all areas. It’s almost like “if you got it, okay, I’ll take it, I’ll buy it from you”. And we know that approach is not going to last when these shelves, these lots, these marinas, whatever it might be, start filling back up again. And now you got product to sell, right?
Josh Braun:
Yes. So price is the last refuge. When there’s nothing that’s meaningfully different. Take the pandemic out of the equation for a second. So I’m a sales trainer. And the way I advertise for my service is that I write content like what we’re do now. Yeah. I write LinkedIn content. I like LinkedIn posts. I know you do this as well with your customers. And what happens is people get to see how I think. And they get to see my training through the materials that I create. and so when people come to me, I’m different than what they’ve seen out there already. My point of view is you don’t start by persuading people. When you persuade people that actually raise their boxing clubs, your first job as a salesperson is you have to lower the zone of resistance. so people are more open to talking. That’s a point of view.
So when people call me because I’m meaningfully different, I don’t negotiate on price unless I get something in return. If you’re selling something, that’s the same of everybody else is selling, you have to be able to figure out what is it that I’m going to bring to the table that they don’t have. A good friend of mine his name is Dale Dupree, sold copy machines. One of the most commoditized things you could ever sell in the world. And I noticed that he was the number one rep in Florida for like 10 years in a row still in copy business. I had him on my podcast. And the first question I asked him was “How’s a copier salesman, still in copier business from other copier salesmen”. And I’ll never forget what he said to me. He said, “I’m not a copier salesman”. I said, “what are you?”.
He goes, “I’m a copier warrior”. He shows me his business card and he’s got a sword and he’s fighting against jammed up copy machines. And he’s got a commercial of himself fighting copy machines. It’s hilarious. He sends his prospects a brick. It’s actually a red sponge, but it looks like a brick. There’s a note on it. And the note says that if you’ve ever wanted to throw a brick at your copy machine, but you didn’t want to get in trouble or get fired, throw this instead. Here’s the instructions. With your predominant throwing hand, aim, throw and call me, I’m Dale Dupree. But everyone calls me the copier warrior. So he’s differentiating. You the sales professional is a differentiator. Are you a car salesman or are you a car warrior?
Jim Fitzpatrick:
That’s right. That’s right. Boy. That’s a very good, very good point. Very good point. So during these times, sales training, I know you would agree, you’re a sales trainer. Sales training is just as important today as it is when the lots are full. When the shelves are full. When you can’t get enough product and you don’t have enough sales, you don’t have enough customers. It’s just as important today as it is then. Right?
Josh Braun:
Yeah. So I would argue that it’s not so much the training. You can’t get good at anything that you haven’t been taught or practiced. In fact, we get good at things. Even if we practiced them correctly or incorrectly, most people have practiced listening, incorrectly. So we’ve gotten really good at not listening. Go out to dinner with anybody that has a different point of view than you. And you’ll hear just how bad people are at listening. So one it’s one of the things I teach is listening. Now I can teach you listening, but to get better at listening, you have to know what good listening is. Or good prospecting or good objection diffusing. And then you have to actually get the reps in. You actually have to practice. Practice makes permanent whether it’s negative or positive. Same thing if you’re learning an instrument, I’m actually, I fool around with the guitar and what I’m learning now from the good guitar teacher is I’ve actually been playing wrong and I’ve been practicing wrong. So I’ve developed some bad habits.
Practice doesn’t make perfect. Practice makes permanent so got to know what good is. That’s what a sales trainer does. But then we have to have people in the organization after the sales trainer leaves to reinforce good and to practice every morning, like you would, if you were to go into a gym, to get stronger muscles.
Jim Fitzpatrick:
That’s right. There’s no question about it. Josh Braun, founder of Josh Braun sales training, check him out online. He’s also host of a podcast Inside Selling, check that out as well. And you don’t have to go any further than your phone to see TikTok. This guy is a TikTok sensation. So thank you so much, Josh, for joining us on the show today. Very much. Appreciate it. Love to do a follow up with you to see how things are moving along. And I’ve got a whole list of questions here that my producers have given me, but obviously because of time, we can’t go over them all, because we love new ways of selling and a new way to look at it. And I think that you’ve zeroed in on that. So thank you so much for joining us. Really appreciate
Josh Braun:
Thanks for having me. And next time I am bringing in the suit and the tie.
Jim Fitzpatrick:
Sounds good.
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