The pandemic profoundly impacted and changed the way many of us conduct business. It forced some to innovate and others to shift online. While we are still dealing with the pandemic, marketing has been top of mind for many of you as more consumers head online.
On today’s show, we’re pleased to welcome in an expert that has the answers to today’s marketing questions and challenges, Guy Kawasaki. Guy is a Silicon Valley Venture Capitalist, Chief Evangelist for Canva, and author of fifteen books beginning in 1987 with The Macintosh Way. His latest book is titled Wise Guy: Lessons from a Life.
Transcription:
Jim Fitzpatrick:
Welcome back into the Guy, we very much appreciate you taking the time out of your schedule to join us on the show.
Guy Kawasaki:
Thank you for having me back.
Jim Fitzpatrick:
Sure. So you’re one of those thought leaders out there that so many people turn to in your podcast and to listen to you speak. I’ve had the pleasure of hearing you speak a number of times and you’ve got the whole audience sitting right on the edge of their seats saying, “What does Guy think about these different issues?” So if we can, I’d like to kind of throw a couple of questions at you.
Guy Kawasaki:
Sure.
Jim Fitzpatrick:
With regard to the last couple of years, there’s so many businesses out there that have had to pivot, some actually didn’t make it at all. But for those companies that pivoted, some have reported that they’re doing pretty good because they made that pivot. And because in many cases, they took their business from maybe brick and mortar to online. And we even see automobile dealerships, for instance, that said, “Okay, we don’t have anybody coming into the showrooms. We’ll sell the cars online and bring them and deliver them to them.” So it’s a completely different setup. So I’d like to get your take on the last couple of years and some of the lessons learned.
Guy Kawasaki:
Sure. Well first of all, we have to address the physical pain and suffering that it caused. Because, I don’t want to just jump into what happened business wise and sort of minimize what happened in terms of medical issues. So there’s been a lot of pain and suffering. Having said that, I think that we will look back at this time period as a time of great catalytic change in business. And it has forced businesses that were hesitant or resistant to becoming digital and online to have to make that jump.
Guy Kawasaki:
And not everybody’s going to that chasm, but the people who do are going to be stronger for it and someday will look back and say, “Well, what were we thinking, why did we hesitate? Why did it take a pandemic to do this?” So, one example I have is a company called Madison Reed and they sell hair color dye. And that was a brick and mortar company that you’d go to the salon, and it would be the social event and you dye your hair. And guess what, salons weren’t open for quite a while, so that business completely changed. And now it’s an online business.
Guy Kawasaki:
And the stylists that used to be in the brick and mortar facility that were advising you, and applying the dye and all doing that, well now they’re digital advisors online, helping people dye their hair at their own home. And the business has really taken off. Now, it’s dependent on what kind of business, right? It’s hard to spin that the pandemic has been good for many restaurants, because you can’t convert that to digital. Although, with delivery, and outdoor seating and all that, some people have done very radical things. But I think a lot of e-commerce lends itself to making this leap forward.
Jim Fitzpatrick:
Yeah, for sure. And to your point, many companies have thrived during these times and realized that, wow this is a whole new revenue stream or profit center, if you will, that they hadn’t even considered in the past, right?
Guy Kawasaki:
I don’t think we’re ever going to go back to everybody comes to the office for 40 to 60 hours a week, everybody’s commuting, all this kind of stuff. At the least we’re going to be a hybrid, but I doubt that we’ll ever go back to where we were. And frankly, I mean, we’ve seen so many advantages. You take the events business, so the events business, if you view the glass as half empty, there’s less face to face networking, less serendipity, less of meeting new people in ways, and bonding and all that kind of stuff. On the other hand, now you can have meetings where anyone in the world can attend at their convenience.
Guy Kawasaki:
And speaking as a speaker, making a trip is two to three, four days investment, right? Well, right now it’s an hour investment. So I can do it for much less money, I can do more, I can do easier. And I would make the case that if you go to a large event, the first 20 rows or so of the audience, they’re probably watching you. But from the 21st to the 100th row, they’re looking at the magnification, the IMAG, the big image, right? So what difference does it make, if you’re looking at a big image in a big hall? Or you’re looking at an image on your TV, excuse me, on your computer or your phone? Not that different.
Jim Fitzpatrick:
That’s right. And get a much better image of you doing that rather than having to look up in this… And for the visitors to those conferences, they too have got to spend two or three days in hotel rooms and time down that they’re not in their office, or running their businesses or such, just to spend a day in a conference or a convention to listen to speakers. Now they can get on with their lives too, right?
Guy Kawasaki:
Yep. And if you’re a speaker listening to this, it has major ramifications. I think the most important one is a typical 45 minute to an hour keynote in the old days, that was sort of power for the course. I think the limit is 20 or 25 minutes.
Jim Fitzpatrick:
Do you really?
Guy Kawasaki:
Yeah. It’s a whole new world.
Jim Fitzpatrick:
And why do you say that, what makes you say that?
Guy Kawasaki:
I just think that you just have to be more succinct, you have to be more out there and in your face right away. You don’t have 45 or 60 minutes to capture people. And honestly, I mean, how many of us when we’re attending an online conference, we have our email client open. I mean, let’s be honest, right? And there’s text messages coming in and you’re looking at your Facebook.
Jim Fitzpatrick:
That’s right. Still trying to manage the office.
Guy Kawasaki:
Yeah. Now, even when you’re you in-person, you probably on your phone and you’re checking email. But there’s no social pressure when you’re viewing it by yourself.
Jim Fitzpatrick:
That’s right. Hey, you mentioned the word social, so let me go there for a second. Social marketing and just social platforms is something that’s near and dear to your heart. Something you’ve talked a great length about. How has that grown and what do you say to companies out there that still aren’t in, on putting themselves out there on social media?
Guy Kawasaki:
Yeah. It’s hard to imagine, to me social media equals marketing. So it used to be that marketing was one thing and social media was this experiment or that’s new thing. And I think the whole thing’s wrapped together now. And so marketing, first of all is not advertising, not in the Madison Avenue way, right? A lot of people for a long time thought, marketing, equals advertising equals buying stuff, buying media buys. But that’s change. And so now social media is just marketing. It’s like saying, “We don’t do social media.” To me, I hear someone saying, “Well, we don’t do marketing.” And what’s the difference at this point?
Jim Fitzpatrick:
That’s right. And the marketing has changed to the point that you’re not on their selling cups for a dollar a piece, you’re talking about the in the cup or who’s making them. Or maybe the portion of it is going to be donated to kids that have no shoes or whatever the case might be. I mean, you’re really just telling the story of the company or maybe of the founder even. Maybe you don’t even get into the product or the company any longer and people then follow you. And all of that has change, hasn’t it? I mean, for people that are not doing that today in business, they’re just missing a huge opportunity.
Guy Kawasaki:
Well truly, information is fast and it’s free. But it’s a completely different sell now, especially because the feedback and the transparency of feedback is much greater. And to take an extreme example, if you are an author and you go to your Amazon listing and you’re at two and a half stars, you might as well pack it up. Its game over. And speaking of book marketing, in the old days, you prayed that the New York Times, or Publishers Weekly or somebody like that reviewed your book and they would make your book, right?
Jim Fitzpatrick:
Right.
Guy Kawasaki:
Well today, I don’t even know if the New York Times Book Review still exists, I don’t certainly wait for it. I don’t read the New York Times on Sundays, on paper anyway. And so now when a new book comes out, you go to the Amazon listing, it’s four and a half stars. You read the first two or three reviews and you press 1-Click buying. You’re not waiting for the Oracles at the New York Times to tell you which book is good. Trixie has given it a five star review, you have no idea who Trixie is, but you buy it. It’s a different world.
Jim Fitzpatrick:
Yeah. There no question about it. What are some of the trends that you see for 2022 and beyond that you think businesses should focus on or at least be aware of? Is there anything out there that maybe even keeps you up at night? We’ve made it through the pandemic for the most part. I know we’re still in the middle of it, but not maybe in the middle, but maybe towards the tail end of it now. But is there anything out there that’s concerning of you or do you see any trends coming?
Guy Kawasaki:
Well, I think its great opportunity now. And if I really would set my mind to it, I think there’s a concept to be written about and evangelized. Its along the lines of empathy marketing, that it’s working backwards from the customer and empathizing with the customer. I think is probably the most important social media/marketing/advertising/sales paradigm that you can embrace. And I think it’s come to light in a pandemic because a pandemic has caused such suffering that the quality of empathy is so much more important than before.
Jim Fitzpatrick:
Sure. Can you drill down on that a little bit and give me what you see as an example of somebody doing a good job with that or?
Guy Kawasaki:
Well, I was with you until you said doing a good job.
Jim Fitzpatrick:
Okay. Well, making an attempt at it.
Guy Kawasaki:
Well, I’ll give you a story, I have a podcast called Remarkable People, and guess what, I interview remarkable people on it. And one of them was Martin Lindstrom, and he told me a great story about how he was working with the pharmaceuticals client and its management, want to “Get closer to the customer.” When have you ever heard that before. So they wanted to get closer to the customer and understand what the customer is going through. Typically, what happens is you hire McKinsey or you hire a consulting firm, you pay them 5 million bucks to do consumer research and focus groups. And then they give you a PowerPoint presentation and tell you, “You need to be in the upper right hand Magic Quadrant.”
Guy Kawasaki:
Well, what Martin did is he took the executives into a room and he made them all breathe through straws. And let’s just say, some of them had a very difficult time. In fact, some of them got angry. And so he said, “Well you want to understand what your customer is going through. Your customers who have asthma, this is what their life is like. They’re breathing through a straw all day long. That’s what their life is like.” That’s empathy.
Jim Fitzpatrick:
Yeah. That’s right. And you’re right, we do have to have more of that. The auto industry come comes to mind, I think that has completely changed and we see that. Right now, as you probably know, there’s a shortage of chips that don’t go in cars. Although we’re seeing consumers come into showrooms in great numbers willing to pay sticker price for vehicles like never before, so therefore dealer profits are up. But dealers have definitely changed the way that they market the cars. And now they’re saying “We’re offering so much more online to make it more convenient for that consumer that’s home. Whether the consumer is sick, or not sick, or whatever.”
Guy Kawasaki:
Casing point. Can I mention a brand when I-
Jim Fitzpatrick:
You certainly can. Please do.
Guy Kawasaki:
So a couple weeks ago, I picked up an IONIQ 5, a Hyundai IONIQ 5, which is their new EV.
Jim Fitzpatrick:
Yeah. It’s a great car.
Guy Kawasaki:
Yeah. And I tell you something, I never went to a dealership, I never even saw the car. I certainly didn’t drive the car. And I met in the parking lot, this is not an illegal deal. But I met at the parking lot of the home depot. And that’s where I signed the paperwork, and got the keys, and got the car.
Jim Fitzpatrick:
Wow. Did the whole transaction online.
Guy Kawasaki:
The whole thing was online, text and all that. Now, that may be an unusual case, but the point is that this whole concept of you going test drive and then you make an offer, they counter. And then the guy I says, ” I just checked with my sales manager and he said, he just can’t do this. The best we can do…” And then now I want you to meet with my finance guy, and the finance guy is, “Are you sure you don’t want that clear coat and that Armor All on your tires because you know. How about that extended warranty?” And so it’s a very different world. Now, I’ll give you one more. Since a lot of this is about automobiles and I love cars. I’ll tell you something.
Guy Kawasaki:
So the IONIQ 5 great car, but I’ve also [inaudible 00:14:24] drove a Mustang Mach-E, great car. I mean, electric cars are here to stay. But I will tell you something, the weak point is this. So IONIQ 5 comes with two years of Electrify America, right? So I go to my local Electrify America, there are four charging stations, three are out. The one that I plugged into, I can’t make it work. I spend 45 minutes on the phone. Can’t make it work, they give up. And then I go to an EVgo and I spend another 30 minutes. Now, I might not be the sharpest tool in shed, but I’m not the dullest tool in the shed either. So, I was basically zero for three, trying to charge at a charging station.
Jim Fitzpatrick:
Wow, that’s not good.
Guy Kawasaki:
Finally, I put it 240 line in my house, but the point is that… I’ll tell you something, if I had bought that car for my wife and said, “Hey honey, go over there and get a charge.” We would either be divorced right now or we would be in an internal combustion car. So that’s what they need to fix, they need to fix the infrastructure. I mean, it would be like, “I went to a service station and for 45 minutes, I couldn’t figure out how to put gas in my car.”
Jim Fitzpatrick:
Right. That’s crazy.
Guy Kawasaki:
Oh my God. That’s crazy.
Jim Fitzpatrick:
That really is. But you’re right, that is where the industry is moving for sure. I mean, every manufacturer is now retrofitting their factories and such, and coming out with their full-line of cars that are EVs. And is that a good thing? Do you think that’s good for America that in the course of the next 10 to 15 years, we’ll see this in incredible shift over to no more combustion and all EVs?
Guy Kawasaki:
Yeah. Well, that is a seemingly simple question, right? That cars that are not emitting things are better. But then you really have to ask yourself, well, how was that power generated? If you’re in West Virginia and you’re burning coal to get electricity to charge your car, that’s not as good as if you’re in California and it’s some wind or solar. But even at the worst case, I think the conversion of electrical to motion is better than the conversion of gas to motion. I can’t see where electric cars are not going to take over the world. It’s going to happen. Having said that I’m going to buy one last Porsche 911 manual shift before [crosstalk 00:16:55].
Jim Fitzpatrick:
Get it in the garage so you got it, right?
Guy Kawasaki:
Yeah. I got to get one more.
Jim Fitzpatrick:
With a surf rack.
Guy Kawasaki:
Yeah. With a surf rack.
Jim Fitzpatrick:
So, let me ask you this. How are you spending your days recently? Tell me a little bit about the company that you’re involved in now?
Guy Kawasaki:
Well, I’m chief evangelist of Canva. And that is an online and graphics design service, which has just blossomed in the past couple years, because people are now… They’re working at home, they need to create graphics and they need to communicate better, et cetera. They’re not hiring outside agencies to do this, and meeting with them and all this stuff. So Canva has just exploded. I’m also, as I said, the host of the Remarkable People Podcast. Honestly, Jim, I was just born to be a podcaster. I just [crosstalk 00:17:43].
Jim Fitzpatrick:
I agree. You got a great way about you, and your voice is there and people want to talk to you.
Guy Kawasaki:
It’s the mic.
Jim Fitzpatrick:
It’s the mic, right?
Guy Kawasaki:
So I interviewed for the podcast, Linda Zhang, who’s the product manager of the Ford 150 Electric. Oh my God, I think as we look back, the Ford 150 Electric may be as significant as the first Tesla. Because, let’s face it, Tesla is for like rich West Coast liberal democrat venture capitalists, right? I mean, we’re wearing our Birkenstocks, and we’re eating kale salad. And we’re playing golf and we’re trying to make America great again. But the Ford 150, I mean, we’re talking mainstream-America there.
Jim Fitzpatrick:
Yeah. That is, no question about it.
Guy Kawasaki:
Yeah. When people embrace an electric truck, I think it’s game over for internal combustion.
Jim Fitzpatrick:
I Know. I would agree with you on that. There no question about it. I will tell you a Guy, I can sit here and talk to you all day and just keep throwing issues at you. But I know we’re on a limited time with you. So thank you so much for joining us on the show. We very much appreciate it.
Guy Kawasaki:
Thank you.
Jim Fitzpatrick:
I know that our viewers and subscribers will get so much out of your visit here with us today. So continue on all of your great success where everybody’s following you. And I’m sure that we’re going to show all the information so that you can listen to you as well on your podcast. And love to have you back on the show in the future.
Guy Kawasaki:
All right, thanks.
Jim Fitzpatrick:
But the one and only the legend Guy Kawasaki. Thank you so much.
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