How to Execute Your Business Model Using International Collaboration with Mary Ellen Sheehan

Transcription:

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
Today, let’s talk about international collaborations. As an entrepreneurship attorney, I’ve heard many business ideas and plans for execution. Sometimes those plans and ideas involve working with manufacturers, people, or resources in other countries. My guest today is Mary Ellen Sheehan co-founder of Royal Thanaka, LLC. Her company is credited as the first skincare business in the US to feature Thanaka, a paste made from ground bark found in Myanmar, previously known as Burma, which is a country in Southeast Asia. Not only does Mary Ellen regularly import the star ingredient for her cosmetics from Burma, she often engages with overseas collaborators to execute her business model. So if you are interested in doing overseas collaborations for your business, this is definitely a story you want to hear. Mary Ellen.

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
Hi Dayna.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
I’m so happy to have you. So we were just talking about how we actually first got introduced, Mary Ellen was actually one of my first clients and I was there when you were starting up Royal Thanaka and to put everything together. So I’m so happy that we’ve come full circle pretty much. So let’s get into your story and we’ll talk about the international collaborations and your product and all that good stuff. So tell us about your background, because I know it’s very different than what you’re doing now in entrepreneurship. So tell us about your background before entrepreneurship was a part of your life.

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
Okay. So I’ve been a teacher for about 30 years.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
Yes.

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
And during that time I taught private schools, public schools, public charter schools. And when I moved to Atlanta in ’96, I taught at Marist in the theology department, but my real dream was to work with refugees, because 80% of them are women and children. And just at that time, there was a charter school starting in Decatur, Georgia, the International Community School.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
Yes.

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
So I was hired there and this is how it all began. I met my business partners there, and we-.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
Really?

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
… Yes, been international ever since.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
So I did not know that, that’s actually how you got introduced to your partners and I can put the story together. So from there, from becoming a teacher, moving to Atlanta, how did you get the idea to develop a cosmetic?

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
Okay. So my business partners are from Burma and over the years we’ve been thinking, what can we do together?

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
Okay.

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
And at one point we had an urban farms group and we would grow things in different locations, but that was really hard to do when you’re working full time.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
Right.

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
And then, so I went to Ireland to go to cooking school and I was there-.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
Nice.

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
…for three months. One time I was in a boat fishing for dinner, it was a farm-to-table cooking school, organic farm. And one of my colleagues in the school had been in the cosmetic industry in Hong Kong for 30 years, and married an Irish guy. And she was telling me, she’s developing a line of skincare products using Irish seaweed.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
Okay.

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
And I thought, oh, I didn’t know you could do that.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
Yeah.

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
And then when I came back, I was telling Myo and Htwe, my business partners, about this story. And they said, well, Burmese children in Burma, that Thanaka is used as a face covering skin covering-.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
I’ve seen pictures. Yes.

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
… for, to protect from the sun and the children at the International Community School from Burma wear it every day. So we thought, oh my goodness, why don’t we make a line of skincare products using Thanaka? So, that’s how it began.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
That’s how the idea came to life. When I was researching Thanaka, I did see a lot of photos of the children. They would have the paste on their face. And I know that it has a lot of benefits, but can you tell us more about the benefits of Thanaka itself, but then also as a cosmetic?

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
Okay. So in Burma it’s been used for over 2000 years.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
Wow.

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
And primarily for protection from the sun, because it’s a barrier, you put it on as a paste, you just take the bark of wood and grind it with water, put it on as a paste and it dries and stays on all day. And it also cools the skin while it’s on that way. And that then it’s been analyzed to be high in vitamin E antioxidants and has astringent properties. And there’s no downside. It’s been proven for over 2000 years, babies in Burma wear it all the way through the elderly.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
That’s amazing. And you brought that to the US and put it in a cosmetic, formed this company. So, I believe that some of the fun parts of starting a business, branding it is fun, putting the product together. Tell us about what it was like when you were initially starting the company, because that’s how we met.

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
Yes.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
You came to my office, you had this wonderful idea about this product, and Thanaka, was the first time I’d ever heard about Thanaka before, I had to do some research before our consultation. And now I feel like I know so much about Thanaka.

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
Yes.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
So what were some of your initial steps from having the idea to actually forming this into a company?

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
So you were our first step, because we wanted to have a legal foundation. We wanted to be sure that we covered every point to protect ourselves. And because we are all like teachers and engineers, and my husband also was involved and he’s a computer person. And so this was a whole new world for us.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
I remember that.

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
Yes. So I contacted you and came in with our little pieces of wood and said, this is what we want to do. And then we formed a corporation.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
Yes.

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
I got an NDA. And then I approached cosmetic developers.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
Absolutely. And that is one thing that I love about you as a client, is that you want to do things the right way. You’ve asked so many questions along the way, and I love that. I love getting asked questions by entrepreneurs that want to do it the right way, but not only want to, but you are willing to invest in your business. I know you have invested quite a bit of time, energy, money, and it really is creating some amazing fruit for you, which is fantastic. So there’s so much that you have done for the legal foundation to protect it. But let’s talk a little bit about working overseas. So in what ways do you work with overseas partners, collaborators, manufacturers, whatever it is. So tell us your connection with how you work with whoever may be overseas.

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
Okay. So it’s very helpful to have people working with Myo and Htwe, they’re my partners, they’re from Burma. So when we decided we wanted to do this, we wanted quality control from the beginning. So Myo went, that’s the husband of the couple, he went to Burma and he got an expert in Thanaka trees and they found a really good tree farm. And the trees are not cut down, it’s the branches that are harvested and they grow back, because that’s real important to us. And so while he was there, he made two trips there and he selected trees. And then he trained people on harvesting, cleaning, grinding, shipping, and then we have a customs broker here that allowed us to bring it into the country and permission from the USDA. They said, as long as it’s ground, we can bring it in. So Myo has set up in Burma, there’s people who are very dependable to harvest the product for us.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
Wow.

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
And then we have another international connection.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
Tell us more.

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
Okay.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
Tell us more. We want to hear about it, because this is such a mystery to a lot of people, Mary Ellen.

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
Yes.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
I know that a lot of people want to work with overseas partners, but it’s like, how do we even do this? So please share.

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
Okay. So another challenge for us was finding containers, like jars for our cream, because we wanted to be sustainable. So, we were trying to stay away from plastic. And we wanted glass jars, and what I found after a lot of research in the US, you have to have a minimum order quantity of 10 to 20,000.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
Wow.

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
And there’s no exception. And we are just starting out small and we couldn’t afford that. So I did a global search and I found a lot of beautiful glass jars in Italy. And so we found a good place in Italy where we got our first glass jar from, it’s recycled glass with a recycled plastic lid.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
Can I see it.

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
Yes.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
I’m going to open it for you [inaudible 00:08:36]-.

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
Okay. Sure. And you can buy any amount, any quantities. So we started with a thousand and then they shipped them here by air freight. And then we decided to make a smaller option of the same cream. And we did change our packaging a bit from feedback from people.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
Which is important. You have to listen to feedback.

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
Yes.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
And you can’t be so connected to your initial idea that you don’t want to upgrade. We can definitely see, they both look good, but I can see the difference in this new packaging.

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
Yeah. Yeah. And so we were dealing directly with Italies and so the first jars came by air freight, the second jars we put on a boat because, or a ship, because of the freight costs. And it was less to have them on a ship, but that took three months.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
Wow.

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
And I would rather not do that again because at one point the ship started sinking and they had to move all the products to another ship, which delayed them coming in. And then they landed in New Jersey, but nobody knew where they were.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
Wow.

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
And so I had to find them and then they were trucked to Atlanta. And then I had to go in line with all the semi trucks and get them from a loading dock.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
Oh, my goodness. I’m just picturing you doing all that, I just love your story, because as an entrepreneur, Mary Ellen, you have to be willing to do whatever it takes.

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
Yes.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
And that’s what I tell people. There’s no, I’m not doing that, or that’s not my job. It’s everything.

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
Yes.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
And I love hearing this part of the story because I’m thinking in my head, how did you even figure out that these have to go on ships and the glass jars and the company in Italy, it’s a lot. Did you do the research on your own?

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
Yes. Did the research on my own. I asked a lot of questions, and I didn’t know they had to be driven from New Jersey. So we had to find a company, and the people in Italy were very helpful. So, that was important. I could call them, I developed a relationship with them. And so they were very accommodating and then we got our boxes from Pakistan.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
Okay.

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
And we didn’t-.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
Another county.

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
Yes.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
So we’re in Southeast Asia, we’re in Pakistan, we’re in Italy. Okay.

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
Yes.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
Awesome.

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
And I didn’t find the place in Pakistan, we have an artist who is amazing. She designed our labels. She designed our boxes, our website, our social media. And she is very frugal and found a really good place in Pakistan that made our boxes very quickly, exactly the way we wanted them.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
Wow.

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
And then the second box, that smaller one, I dealt more directly with the intermediary person and said, we need them quickly. And we got them. It was just amazing.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
That’s awesome. So how is pricing? You don’t have to give a specific pricing, but was it more than you thought it would be, right where you thought it would be, or less?

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
Right where I thought it would be, or a little bit less for the jars.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
Okay. Okay.

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
Because in the US, I had no choice and I would have to spend a lot of money to get a lot of jars and they were a pretty good deal. The hardest part now is the shipping. And that’s even, it’s increasing even now. And then the boxes were a really good deal. So, that part hasn’t been difficult.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
That’s awesome. So you went through a lot, but it takes that.

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
It does. Yes.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
Marry Ellen, it takes that trial and error trying to figure things out, researching, trying this way. That didn’t work. Let me try it this way. So there is no shortcut, especially when you’re working with companies overseas, because it’s so unfamiliar, but I’m so happy that you are at this stage now because you guys have a storefront.

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
Yes.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
You have this phenomenal product, which I love and I use. So tell us about your experience getting the formula developed, because we’ve talked about that before too. I’ve been a bit involved in that.

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
Yes. That’s right.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
So, what’s the experience, ups and downs in developing a formula?

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
Once again, we didn’t know what we didn’t know. And so I found a lab in Atlanta and it said, cosmetic lab, and I thought, okay, wonderful. And I brought our logs and the NDA forms and we all signed everything and had a great discussion and they were very enthusiastic. But at that time, I didn’t know what a contract manufacturer was. And so I learned, as time went on, we were with them for a year and a half, or two years maybe. And a contract manufacturer is they develop the formula and they own it. And I kept saying, well, we want to own it and not knowing. And they were like, well, down the road, you can buy it from us, but they really want to manufacture our product. And then just before they were making the final forms of the product, they changed some ingredients. And I said, well, what did you change? And they’re like, we can’t tell you.

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
And so then I just felt uncomfortable. Meanwhile, while that was happening, I was looking for another lab and I did finally was able to get in with the US Botanical Safety Lab in North Carolina. And they’re a not-for-profit, owned partly by the university and partly by the Arboretum. And they developed our formula for us very easily. We own the formula.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
Absolutely.

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
And luckily, one of our chemists, he took on our side job of manufacturing it for us downstairs. There’s another not-for-profit facility. So the costs were very, very low compared to what they could have been. So, very happy with that.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
Yes. I remember some of the story ,and this is definitely, we’ve had a lot of conversations about making sure that we do own the formula.

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
Yes.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
Because one thing that I talk about on this show a lot is when it comes to intellectual property, just because you pay someone to do something doesn’t necessarily mean that you’ll own the formula, or own the brand, or own the copyright. So we’ve talked about that a lot.

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
Yes.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
So I know that you have those phenomenal contracts in your arsenal, because I’ve drafted them.

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
Exactly. Thank you.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
So it’s good. So speaking of protection. So in what ways do you have your intellectual property protected?

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
So we protected our name. We trademarked our name, thanks to you, Royal Thanaka. Now we’re working on our logo. We’ve put that to the side, but we know we need to get the logo. That was also created by an artist in Connecticut.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
Awesome.

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
And, of course, he owns his work. There shouldn’t be any problem him selling it to us, and then us getting it formalized.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
Absolutely.

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
Recently we got several emails from China saying, I think that’s illegal, attorneys in China saying they’re doing a global search because somebody in China is trying to trademark our name.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
Yes. And I can expand on that.

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
Okay.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
So speaking of that, Mary Ellen, outside of what we’re doing for this episode, we’re communicating about her trademark, because Mary Ellen’s trademark for Royal Thanaka is secured in the US, but there’s a company in China that has filed a trademark application for Royal Thanaka for cosmetics. And no, no, no, not my clients. So we are working to make sure that, that gets appalled. So that’s definitely, I’m glad that you mentioned that, because that’s a part of the intellectual property journey. Yes, you may have it registered here in the US, but sometimes in other countries, they see that as an opportunity to try to get that same thing trademarked in another company for knockoffs. And we don’t want that at all.

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
Especially because it’s an Asian product, Thanaka, and we want to sell in China.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
Absolutely.

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
And we want to sell in Southeast Asia, and my business partners are moving to Thailand in two years and planning to open up shop there.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
Yeah. So it’s pretty difficult to decipher because once you do follow your trademark application, that information is public. So there are some emails that you’ll receive that’s spam, but then there’s also emails that you should pay attention to like the one that she received from an attorney in China, that was pretty much giving her a heads up, that there was a pending application in China for her brand name for cosmetics. So keep an eye out for that. And so as we are discussing the pros and the cons so far, a lot of pros of working with overseas, met people and resources. What’s some advice that you would give a new entrepreneur that maybe is at the stage that you were at three or four years ago, that wants to work with overseas collaborators? What advice would you give them?

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
What’s been really helpful for us are the relationships. So in Italy there have been two different people I’ve worked with, one, she probably knows us if I just emailed her, and then she got moved up the ladder and then her assistant took her job. And so I got to know her. And so they advocate for us, once you get to know people, in Pakistan there’re very interested to keep our business. So they reach out once in a while they say, do you need any more boxes? So I think really it’s all about the relationship.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
Absolutely.

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
And then in Burma, Myo has, he knows, he handpicked some of the people. So one of them now is, he said, you don’t have to pay me, just pay me down the road. He’d like to be partner with us, which is fine-.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
That’s fantastic.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
… with us.

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
That’s one of the first things that I thought of is relationships because, Myo and Htwe are from Burma. And so it was helpful for them to go back and forth and build the relationships.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
Yes.

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
And it sound like they made a team. And then also the relationship that you have with the designer introduced you to the company in Pakistan.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
Yes.

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
So relationships are key. We know that.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
Yes.

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
I think my opinion is that in America, sometimes it can be really competitive, but overseas it might be a little more collaborative.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
Yes.

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
So definitely tap into that collaborative side if you’re looking to work with overseas partners.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
Yes.

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
So Mary Ellen, tell us how we can buy Royal Thanaka, I use it all the time. So how can we keep in touch with you and purchase Royal Thanaka if we’re interested?

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
So we have a website, RoyalThanaka.com, and we’re also on Amazon.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
Nice.

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
We were in an incubator program indicator. So we had a shop for a while, but it was a six month program. And it gave us an idea of what it’s like to have a shop.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
Yes.

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
We’re trying to get into some boutiques in Atlanta. We’re in the Atlanta botanical garden.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
Nice.

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
But our challenge right now is people don’t know what Thanaka is in this country, like Shea Butter when it arrived on the scene 30 years ago or so, nobody knew what it was, but they got a corporate sponsor who put little bit in all of their shops and helped promote them.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
Yeah.

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
So education just, it’s a really good product. You almost have to try it to see how good it is.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
I’m going to hope that Thanaka goes viral, all it takes is for one influencer to use it and it will go viral and everyone will be looking for it. So I’m going to-.

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
Thank you.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
… speak all that positivity. So thank you, Mary Ellen, it was so fantastic to catch up.

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
Yes.

Dayna Thomas, Esq.:
And for you to share more of your story. And I hope that it inspires a lot of people who want to work with overseas collaborators.

Mary Ellen Sheehan:
Me too. Thank you very much.

Dayna Thomas Esq.:
Be sure to share today’s show with someone who can benefit and visit MyASBN.com and subscribe. If you have any questions or comments about today’s show, I would love to hear from you, send me a message or comment on Instagram at @daynathomaslaw. Remember to tune in next week and every week to make sure your business is launched and legal.